I am itching to see null. Never even been close to it before. It's a part of the game that is walled off to me due to the fact that I am unwilling to allow other gamers to ruin my fun.

Perhaps because they have yet to explain it for the first time.....?

You know, it's funny you should say this, because this is an advice that is provided to hi sec miners ad nauseum during hulkageddon- and jihadswarm-like events. I'm curious as to why is it good for the goose but not the gander to get protection while mining?

1) there exists a thing called mineral compression

Their tears are delicious!!

Yeah, it's probably pretty painful for them to accept that the people they love to mock and ridicule are in fact needed in the game. They want what we bring, but they don't want us. Derp.

Two things. First: So? So you have to fight? What's the problem? Isn't the game all about shooting spaceships? Don't you want to be in on killmails yourself? Or are you suggesting the enemy is simply better than you or better able to field a larger fleet?

Second: So?! Bring in your own reinforcements. Set up a picket line to harass and distract. FIGHT!

How often is the enemy going to be able to field a fleet to go after you? And again, *so what*!? You guys like to fight, so fight! Hurt them bad enough that they can't field fleet against you any more.

Some time ago, the constant complaints from the pixel hard-men 'persuaded' CCP to nerf level 4 mission loot.

The same pixel hard-men then complained that the introduction of metal scraps was, in fact, a nerf against those who attacked mission ships and or got to the mission wrecks first.

I have never been able to take the complaints of those who wish to nerf hi-sec seriously since.

Dodging the point wont make it go away.

Assigning a high school debate team tactics label to someone's post doesn't change it either.

Why? Can't afford it? Don't want to lose out on your passive free income sources of PI and Moon Goo?

You are just complaining about being forced into 10% tidi PVP or being camped by AFK cloakers. You just can't admit it. You want everyone else to suffer with lame mechanics (like AFK cloakers) and fleet battles that take 16 hours for your fast locker to tell your sentries what to do.

Meanwhile, you don't want anything changed with your precious ISK faucets.

Stop the charade.

Keep trying Benny. No butthurt here: I happen to be one of the few who has the balls to admit that ISK flow in null is too passive. Keep trying to attack me personally

Maybe after enough tries you will eventually have a meaningful response that actually addresses the argument.

I am making an open offer right now to any and all alliances who hold Sov in null:

If it is so terrible, I will gladly take it off your hands. I will gladly rake in the profits from moon goo, PI, Anoms, Sigs and renters fees while begging for buffs to null and nerfs to every other segment of the game. Not one of you will take me up on the offer. Why? Can't afford it? Don't want to lose out on your passive free income sources of PI and Moon Goo?

You are just complaining about being forced into 10% tidi PVP or being camped by AFK cloakers. You just can't admit it. You want everyone else to suffer with lame mechanics (like AFK cloakers) and fleet battles that take 16 hours for your fast locker to tell your sentries what to do.

Meanwhile, you don't want anything changed with your precious ISK faucets.

Stop the charade. If hi sec is a better place to make ISK (while raking in the ISK profits from your null sources) then maybe we should be looking into making more space like hi sec? It is better by your own declaration. The crying in this thread is by far the most hypocritical garbage I have heard.

So have the two parties of HS and NS come to an agreement about a balanced way to un**** this real or imagined imblance?

Does no one supporting that position understand real world economics?

A lot of what he says makes a lot of of sense, if you actually read it.

If you try to make stuff, deliver stuff, mine stuff, anything at all positive for the local market in nullsec....You will be targeted and you will be blown up.

Read rest of the post before you respond.

I gave you an actual example of an actual person playing the actual game, rather than just make stuff up and declare things impossible for whatever reason.

(and they obviously did want him around by proxy -- they were buying the things he put up on the market)

Repeatedly click on the little icon that represents "previous page" about 47 times to get an idea of why nullsec alliances apparently aren't really hauling very effectively. What many of us are trying to say is that there are highsec players like me who would gladly take your ISK by selling you stuff you need in stations in nullsec. I could be in a freighter in a week or two, and if I could make a handfull-million ISK or so for a 30 or so round trip jump into Null, I would do it.

DID YOU KNOW THAT MANUFACTURERS DO NOT HAVE TO MINE THEIR OWN MATERIALS

AND SELL IN JITA FOR A PRICE HIGHER THAN COST?

words

So long as those nerfs are not intended to fully cripple highsec industry and exist only to improve industry in Null I am not averse to reading it.

There is a case for making the initial capital investment cheaper, or stations offer more.
There is also a case for ALL Stations/Outposts to have more expensive lines, in order to allow POS manufacturing (Which again, Null Pos's cost less upkeep than High Pos's) to compete with stations.
And there is a very good case for getting rid of the stupidly low refining levels, making it just a single basic add on, and making it at least 40% on Amarr stations. Refining is not an entire branch of the game on it's own, and should not be getting put through the same levels of upgrades as the lab slots, offices & industry lines

The point is that despite all the complaints about 'High Sec earns more' Null Faucets alone beat all other related forms of High Sec income combined. Without considering the other forms of Null Sec income that already exist at all. Meaning that there is more isk to be made in Null Sec.

sure, let people wardec the scope.

quite why you'd want to wardec the entire gallente federation for cash when you could simply join the caldari militia for free i don't know.

or, in other words, what a silly idea.

I feel dirty for agreeing with a Benny Ohu post. Like getting an open mouth kiss from an aunt; that dirty.

In the CSM Assembly Hall and nearly lost my ****.

And still I've seen nothing specific in this thread. As I told Baltec, a nerf for the sake of null sec is not unreasonable, but he needs to be more specific so it can be evaluated by everyone. And the insane people are still going to be insane but I think, with actual specific initiatives and some wisdom behind the existence of those initiatives would quell any rebellion of the insane.

As far as high sec goes, I think the introduction of high sec POCOs indicates the direction CCP will take: getting people out of invincible NPC structures and into player-made, player-configured, destructible structures. That, plus wardecs, will not only make high sec corporations more meaningful, it will take away one of the premier advantages of high sec industry, namely its ability to use invincible and so-cheap-as-to-be-essentially-free NPC stations for manufacturing. No single one of these measures will be enough, and CCP will be careful introducing them because they don't want the game's vaunted economy to fall over. Cumulatively, though, I think they're on the right track.

I also think that anyone hoping for any major alliance to be 100% free of high sec is going to be disappointed. Even wormholers are dependent on high sec and particularly the high sec economy (more so, because sleepers don't pay bounties). CCP is insistent on their being dependencies between the various parts of space, so I don't see that changing any time soon. They can, and will, change the nature and extent of the dependencies, but not more than that.

do you really, honestly, seriously expect everyone in Highsec to just say, "Oh sure - go ahead. Seriously guys why not?"

That all of these things have created an imbalance and it never occurs to any of them that CCP, in their infinite wisdom, has struck the exact balance that they want.

In the time that I've been playing this game, I've seen every claim and rallying cry from people outside of High Sec claiming that "people aren't supposed to stay in highsec!" "people aren't supposed to stay in NPC corps!" "people aren't supposed to play this game solo!"

Then I will simply bow out of this discussion and you can all talk amongst yourselves about this. After all, yours is the only opinion that matters and everyone else, including the developer of the game, is wrong.

With this I'm not sure I've been reading the same forums over the last 3 years that others have.

Of course. Blanket rulechange. I'm sure trickier to implement into a POS, (perhaps the research abilities can create a "data packet" that can be sold to other players), but then the POS system has been a bottleneck against progress in EVE for a long time.

To restate.

Those outside "say" that they want people to migrate from highsec to other areas, as it should be.

Sorry, I'm arriving late to this rant. Can you describe for me any activity in hi sec which meets your criteria? To whit:

1. Must be anomalies
2. Must be for newbies
3. Must be dependable
4. Must be unlimited
5. Must be manufacturing or mining (i.e.: must be mining, since you don't do manufacturing in anomalies)
6. Must be the only activity available

Nothing in hi sec meets those demands, so why restrict null sec to those demands?

For the record, new players are gifted an exploration ship, probe launcher, probes and training as part of the tutorial missions. Thus I dispute your implicit assertion that signatures are not for newbies. Every character with a few hours of training can probe down most sites. They will need better quality modules and implants to get 100% warp able hits on the more interesting sites in null sec, but that's an issue of ISK rather than skill or SP.

Also for the record, mining in hi sec anomalies is not dependable, it is very limited, and is far from the only activity available in hi sec, even to people specialising in mining.

Sigs are dependable. AFAIK all sigs respawn instantly and are therefore infinite in supply.

Hardly the games fault you don't fight for your regions, but instead share and rent them out. EvE is a game about taking, not sharing. You're looking for Hello Kitty Online.

Here MY RAVEN IS EQUIPPED WITH THE PRECEDING

From page 72:



I bet people building Titans feel pretty *smug* right now.

If the argument is "Nerf highsec because you can make 100-150m ISK/hr using this fit, under these conditions, assuming everything goes right vs. nullsec making 90m ISK/hr using this fit, under these conditions, assuming everything goes right" Then okay, fair enough. I assume you are using these exact same fits in null sec anomalies then as well yea?

EDIT : Is that apoc build really supposed to be used for blitzing? I can't see how it would be effective with such little dps/tank and mobility. Hammerheads get heavily hammered when you're trying to blitz.

Well other then the fact that it's a meh fit nothing much.

Too many thoughts in my head. I need to think.

and their systems get LARGE ammount of suicide ganking

That would be their next call.

Wow, screenshots from a goon.
A goon, a group that prides itself on deceit and subterfuge.
Yes, I am sure that anything you post is 100% accurate.

Once again this goes off the rails.

If you reduce the amount of LP in New Eden, you reduce the effectiveness of the LP Store sink.

Can't really kill him without concord intervention since it doesn't sound like he did anything that caused him to go suspect. Though leaving and cancelling is an option for wanting to take care of it quickly.

Benny, no one is claiming faucets are bad or that sinks are good.

Yea, I don't know what that is.

he is talking about the OP.. so he is more "in thread"than most.

station trading

ganking

isk faucet

Personally, I blame the warlord OP and the incendiary language that is used.

Your call, EVE is big boy land, if you can't deal with the consequences of your mistakes, stop making them.

I'm simply telling you to stop jumping to unfounded conclusions (ie "lp is the problem") and instead spend the time listening.

Whnat I find funny is the lack of minimal coprehension of these null se cpeopel why the rewards are high. If you make the missions take logner than the payout per mission will automatically increase...

if you make less LP be gained.. then the value of LP will increase!
Fact is .. there is a perceived value of the things you can buy from the LP store. If people want to pay a lot for these LP that are made in high sec, its not for CCP to nerf it.1

Its the fault of the 0.0 WHINY COWARDS chikens that never for example run SoE missiosn in their superior system for those. Its their fault for not using their so called SUPERIOR forces that cannot be dfefeated to ensure the best constellations are safe, so that they run Pirate missiosn to make SEVERAL TIME SMORE isk per hour than 0.0.

Whatever you do to proove you can do X milliosnepr hours in high sec, can be automatically applyed to run missions in 0.0. And the payout there is massively higher (pirate missions).

I lived in 0.0 and ran missiosn in apanake. I am way more paranoid in apanake than when I lived in Period Basis.

You are the one pretending to be dumb.

Don't believe me,, just look at the volume of killboard stats and you'll see one vs 12 pilots on 90 % on them. It's just wrong!
Granted there are some GREAT pilots in this game that love the challenge of a fair fight, but that's not EVE in general.

Vote in an Arena and that will change this game for the better forever.

So, from the latest dev blog we learn the stunning truth:

At least 3 popular ganking systems on the Jita route (Uedama, Madirmili, Niarja) had more "peeveepee" in them than tear-stained HED-GP.

We need a move to player-owned industry. There have been other threads about this, but the general ideas are:

• Reduce the number of NPC activity lines (activity lines are ME/PE labs, copy slots, invention labs, assembly lines, etc)
• Increase the cost of NPC activity lines
• Increase the utility of POS assembly lines
• Fix POS roles so I can rent lines out to anyone in my alliance
• Ideally fix POS roles so I can rent lines out to anyone with ISK to rent them
• Convert refineries and reprocessing plants into activity lines (IMHO it should take about Gàô as long to reprocess an item as it took to build it)

So yeah. The GÇ£idiotsGÇ¥ part still stands and is hardly a new revelation, nor is it a revelation that popular ganking systems generate more kills over a year than a single fight. I suppose it's a revelation to some that their nonsense about null being safer than highsec is soundly disproven by the statistics, though.

Try again.

Not giving an argument, but calling yourself "generically right" based on no arguments provided is just a way of saying "sorry, i know you're right, but I just want attention".

This is where I disagree with you. I want NPC lines to be limited resources. An easy way to ensure that rookies can always finish the tutorial missions is to either spawn an assembly line in a mission space just for them, or issue them with a token which allows access to a specific NPC corporation's assembly lines. Since only rookies get these tokens (a currency item, similar to say dog tags), only rookies get to use those lines.

Nope, disagree with you there. The standings grind is an industry of its own. If you want the convenience of putting your tower up wherever you want it, go to lowsec, null sec or w-space. If you want your tower up in hi sec, there has to be a price to pay for that convenience. Currently, that price is being a servant to the empires.

We already have corporations whose entire business model is setting up new corporations with appropriate standings, anchoring your POS, then handing over CEO to your alt. There's no need to change that. You can pay someone else to do the standings grind for you through Imiarr Timshae's standings correction corp. You can join Estel Arador Corp Services to get access to jump clone facilities. The standings grind is an established part of the game, there's no reason to remove it. It's not getting in the way of industry as much as NPC facilities are, and it's an existing player-run portion of the game (sure, it's players interacting with NPCs on your behalf, but still, it's player driven industry).

Well, that situation will sort itself out over time. The market will find a balance point where the prices for things compensate for the losses of the facilities required to make those things.

Having 3 - 4 alts and repeatedly bumping a thread doesn't turn this into a controversy of some kind. It just demonstrates you have enough free time to continuously bump a terrible thread until it is 130 pages long.

Most people I know would much rather see the sov system become fixed, rather than some lame/pathetic attempt to "balance" highsec with nullsec.

If you want a giant nerf of highsec ot fly, or a giant buff to nullsec, here's what needs to happen:
Drastically reduce the power of all major coalitions. Cripple their infrastructure, make it so they have to split off into small groups.

You know what would be really imbalanced? Being forced to join a coalition to experience all the content within the game to it's full potential.
So sure, you want big buffs to nullsec? Then you should be prepared to sake some huuuuge nerfs to your coalitions.

Are you saying you are so incredibly ignorant of the EVE economy that you think missions and LP rewards are the standards of income balance?

Tell me more about how shooting red squares is the only way of making ISK.

Hint: this is why you are poor.

By saying it was GÇ£horeshitGÇ¥, he's saying that missions and LP can be considered standards of income balance

"wahhh, i live in null therefore i should be able to make every single ship at my station at half cost and every rat should drop a bajillion isk and there aren't enough rainbow ponies"

Which is quite separate from alliance level industrial activity. Hopefully you know this.

It's far too complicated of a situation to just stupidly reduce it to missions and ratting.